Discussion:
POLITICS OF HATE WON'T DEFEAT BUSH
(too old to reply)
Auzerais310
2003-12-04 22:42:32 UTC
Permalink
Politics of hate won't beat Bush
(and that's all the Democrats really have)

SUSAN ESTRICH
December 4, 2003
=A0
Anyone up for a "Hate Bush" meeting in Hollywood? Doesn't it
sound like just the sort of thing conservatives would invent to make
liberals look stupid and open the conservative spigots?

But this was no right-wing conspiracy. Matt Drudge may be
the one selling the idea that Hollywood held a "Hate Bush" meeting, but
he didn't come up with the title. This is a self-inflicted wound by
another silly Hollywood liberal giving honest politics a bad name.

The meeting in question was chaired by two longtime
Democratic operatives, Harold Ickes and Ellen Malcolm, who have
recognized that whoever wins the Democratic nomination will be at a
severe financial disadvantage as compared to the president.

The Republicans have an institutional advantage when it
comes to raising money, because they are the party of business, and
because they have a larger small-donor base; they also have an advantage
because they control the White House and both houses of Congress.

So what are Democrats to do?

Under the new campaign finance laws, neither party is
allowed to raise "soft" money. But independent groups can. So longtime
Democrats have created two independent groups. One, headed by Ickes,
focuses on providing media cover for the nominee beginning this spring,
when the president is expected to start spending heavily; one headed by
Malcolm and former AFL-CIO political director Steve Rosenthal will focus
on field organizing in target states for the general election.

Invitations were sent to the usual Hollywood suspects, a
collection of people with an interest in politics and money to give, to
attend a meeting Tuesday with Ickes, Malcolm and Rosenthal. It was
titled a "Meeting to Change the Leadership in America in 2004." Hardly
worthy of Drudge.

Then Laurie David sent an e-mail forwarding invites to the
"Hate Bush 12-2 Event," and the right went nuts.

Who is Laurie David? In news clips, she is identified as
Larry David's wife. Who is Larry David? He's the star of "Curb Your
Enthusiasm."

Maybe his wife should curb hers. It is only helping
Republicans.

The way to defeat Bush is not to advertise how much you hate
him. Hard-core ideologues who hate Bush are not going to decide this
election. They'll vote for the Democrat, as they do every four years,
but there aren't enough of them to elect a Democrat. You need swing
voters to do that. Hatred may motivate the left to contribute money, but
it is hardly an effective talking point for public consumption if you
want to win elections.

Ari Emanuel, a talent agent who represents Larry David and
whose brother served in the Clinton White House and now in Congress,
knew just how bad the Drudge story was for Democrats. "People are
assembling over a political issue -- the 2004 election," he told the
press in response to the ruckus about hating Bush. "The invite didn't
say 'Hate Bush,' and I don't think (the Drudge story) was productive."

Productive? I bet it produced a lot of money for George
Bush. And worse, it helps produce votes for him.

The people whose votes Democrats will need to defeat George
Bush don't hate him. On a personal level, they like him. They need to be
convinced not to vote for him, for reasons that have to do with the war,
or special interests or the economy. "Hate Bush" headlines do just the
opposite.

Enemies are one thing, but with friends like Laurie David,
the Democratic nominee is going to need all the help he can get.


Estrich is professor of law and political science at the University of
Southern California. Contact her at ***@law.usc.edu
Gary S. Simon
2003-12-05 03:30:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Auzerais310
Politics of hate won't beat Bush
(and that's all the Democrats really have)
SUSAN ESTRICH
December 4, 2003
Ms. Estrich is an expert on losing elections. Her performance in the
1988 Dukakis campaign was worse than the candidate's.
Bill
2003-12-05 15:19:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Auzerais310
Politics of hate won't beat Bush
(and that's all the Democrats really have)
SUSAN ESTRICH
December 4, 2003
 
<snip>
Post by Auzerais310
Invitations were sent to the usual Hollywood suspects, a
collection of people with an interest in politics and money to give, to
attend a meeting Tuesday with Ickes, Malcolm and Rosenthal. It was
titled a "Meeting to Change the Leadership in America in 2004." Hardly
worthy of Drudge.
Then Laurie David sent an e-mail forwarding invites to the
"Hate Bush 12-2 Event," and the right went nuts.
Who is Laurie David? In news clips, she is identified as
Larry David's wife. Who is Larry David? He's the star of "Curb Your
Enthusiasm."
I'd still describe this story as "hardly worthy of Drudge", at least
if you want to say that anything is too trivial for Drudge to concern
himself with.

The wife of some actor I've never heard of described an event as "hate
Bush" and that's news?
Auzerais310
2003-12-05 19:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
The wife of some actor I've never heard of
described an event as "hate Bush" and that's
news?
It's 'news' because it clearly displays to the world just how much the
Dems are covering themselves in hatefilled leftwing bile.
They have become a pitiful party with no core other than the radical
leftist "I hate Bush' crowd and that means certain overwhelming defeat
in the next election. [Though I'm hardly complaining]
McGovern/Dean '04.
Bill
2003-12-05 20:32:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Auzerais310
Post by Bill
The wife of some actor I've never heard of
described an event as "hate Bush" and that's
news?
It's 'news' because it clearly displays to the world just how much the
Dems are covering themselves in hatefilled leftwing bile.
One obscure actor's wife's comment becomes the voice of the entire
Democratic party?
Post by Auzerais310
They have become a pitiful party with no core other than the radical
leftist "I hate Bush' crowd and that means certain overwhelming defeat
in the next election. [Though I'm hardly complaining]
McGovern/Dean '04.
Where is this "I hate Bush" crowd I keep hearing about? Aside from a
few cranks on usenet and the web, I'm just not seeing them in my
day-to-day travels.
jim
2003-12-05 21:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Where is this "I hate Bush" crowd I keep hearing about? Aside from a
few cranks on usenet and the web, I'm just not seeing them in my
day-to-day travels.
Turn on nearly any TV news program, other than possibly FOX and they
will be there. Watch any Hollywood love fest awards show, they will be
there. Pick up nearly any newspaper or magazine and they will be there.
Visit nearly any school on open house and speak with the teachers and
they will be there.
Brett A. Pasternack
2003-12-05 23:11:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim
Post by Bill
Where is this "I hate Bush" crowd I keep hearing about? Aside from a
few cranks on usenet and the web, I'm just not seeing them in my
day-to-day travels.
Turn on nearly any TV news program, other than possibly FOX and they
will be there. Watch any Hollywood love fest awards show, they will be
there. Pick up nearly any newspaper or magazine and they will be there.
Visit nearly any school on open house and speak with the teachers and
they will be there.
Of course, you have to click your heels three times, and truly believe
it.
jim
2003-12-08 20:58:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
Post by jim
Post by Bill
Where is this "I hate Bush" crowd I keep hearing about? Aside from a
few cranks on usenet and the web, I'm just not seeing them in my
day-to-day travels.
Turn on nearly any TV news program, other than possibly FOX and they
will be there. Watch any Hollywood love fest awards show, they will be
there. Pick up nearly any newspaper or magazine and they will be there.
Visit nearly any school on open house and speak with the teachers and
they will be there.
Of course, you have to click your heels three times, and truly believe
it.
No, there is nobody that can say the majority of the media is not
slanted away from Bush.
Bill
2003-12-08 21:09:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
Post by jim
Post by Bill
Where is this "I hate Bush" crowd I keep hearing about? Aside from a
few cranks on usenet and the web, I'm just not seeing them in my
day-to-day travels.
Turn on nearly any TV news program, other than possibly FOX and they
will be there. Watch any Hollywood love fest awards show, they will be
there. Pick up nearly any newspaper or magazine and they will be there.
Visit nearly any school on open house and speak with the teachers and
they will be there.
Of course, you have to click your heels three times, and truly believe
it.
No, there is nobody that can say the majority of the media is not
slanted away from Bush.
Well, nobody that wants to be gramatically correct, anyway.

I'll say that the majority of the media are not slanted away from
Bush, though.
Chris Crandall
2003-12-09 18:51:17 UTC
Permalink
Bill (***@NOSPAMoptonline.net) wrote:
: On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 20:58:06 GMT, jim <***@nope.org> wrote:

: >In article <***@erols.com>,
: > "Brett A. Pasternack" <***@erols.com> wrote:
: >
: >> jim wrote:
: >> >
: >> > >
: >> > > Where is this "I hate Bush" crowd I keep hearing about? Aside from a
: >> > > few cranks on usenet and the web, I'm just not seeing them in my
: >> > > day-to-day travels.
: >> >
: >> > Turn on nearly any TV news program, other than possibly FOX and they
: >> > will be there. Watch any Hollywood love fest awards show, they will be
: >> > there. Pick up nearly any newspaper or magazine and they will be there.
: >> > Visit nearly any school on open house and speak with the teachers and
: >> > they will be there.
: >>
: >> Of course, you have to click your heels three times, and truly believe
: >> it.
: >
: >No, there is nobody that can say the majority of the media is not
: >slanted away from Bush.

: Well, nobody that wants to be gramatically correct, anyway.

: I'll say that the majority of the media are not slanted away from
: Bush, though.


Nobody who wants, anyway.
Bill
2003-12-09 20:06:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Crandall
: >No, there is nobody that can say the majority of the media is not
: >slanted away from Bush.
: Well, nobody that wants to be gramatically correct, anyway.
: I'll say that the majority of the media are not slanted away from
: Bush, though.
Nobody who wants, anyway.
I'm just surprised nobody pointed out that I spelled "grammatically"
wrong.

Oh well...
Transition Zone
2003-12-11 16:12:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Post by Chris Crandall
: >No, there is nobody that can say the majority of the media is not
: >slanted away from Bush.
: Well, nobody that wants to be gramatically correct, anyway.
: I'll say that the majority of the media are not slanted away from
: Bush, though.
Nobody who wants, anyway.
I'm just surprised nobody pointed out that I spelled "grammatically"
wrong.
As soon as the egos of a couple of the regulars get going again,
they'll be at it, don't worry.
Post by Bill
Oh well...
Brett A. Pasternack
2003-12-12 05:18:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Transition Zone
Post by Bill
I'm just surprised nobody pointed out that I spelled "grammatically"
wrong.
As soon as the egos of a couple of the regulars get going again,
they'll be at it, don't worry.
Yeah...like the one who just criticized another person in this very
thread because he couldn't find the noun in that person's sentence.

BTW, the noun you were looking for was "immigrant".
Brett A. Pasternack
2003-12-09 08:50:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
Post by jim
Post by Bill
Where is this "I hate Bush" crowd I keep hearing about? Aside from a
few cranks on usenet and the web, I'm just not seeing them in my
day-to-day travels.
Turn on nearly any TV news program, other than possibly FOX and they
will be there. Watch any Hollywood love fest awards show, they will be
there. Pick up nearly any newspaper or magazine and they will be there.
Visit nearly any school on open house and speak with the teachers and
they will be there.
Of course, you have to click your heels three times, and truly believe
it.
No, there is nobody that can say the majority of the media is not
slanted away from Bush.
Obviously I've just proven you wrong.

TV news leans left on some issues and right on some issues. There are
liberal newspapers and conservative newspapers; if you really believe
that "nearly any" periodical you pick up will be liberal, you're
absolutely nuts. There are plenty of conservative teachers out there,
too; I live in a pretty liberal area and I still see religious messages
in a lot of the classrooms I walk into, and it's not ususual to see
messages of support for the troops in schools as well. (Not that there's
anything at all wrong with messages of support from the troops; I just
don't believe that the people who put them there are biased against
conservatives.)

Certainly this idea that there's a consistant "I hate Bush" message out
there from these sources is completely out of touch with reality.
David Marc Nieporent
2003-12-10 05:27:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
Post by jim
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
Post by jim
Post by Bill
Where is this "I hate Bush" crowd I keep hearing about? Aside from a
few cranks on usenet and the web, I'm just not seeing them in my
day-to-day travels.
Turn on nearly any TV news program, other than possibly FOX and they
will be there. Watch any Hollywood love fest awards show, they will be
there. Pick up nearly any newspaper or magazine and they will be there.
Visit nearly any school on open house and speak with the teachers and
they will be there.
Of course, you have to click your heels three times, and truly believe
it.
No, there is nobody that can say the majority of the media is not
slanted away from Bush.
Obviously I've just proven you wrong.
TV news leans left on some issues and right on some issues.
On what issue does TV news (of the non-FNC variety) "lean right"?
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
There are
liberal newspapers and conservative newspapers; if you really believe
that "nearly any" periodical you pick up will be liberal, you're
absolutely nuts. There are plenty of conservative teachers out there,
too; I live in a pretty liberal area and I still see religious messages
in a lot of the classrooms I walk into, and it's not ususual to see
messages of support for the troops in schools as well.
So you're saying that support for the troops is a conservative viewpoint?
Liberals don't support the troops? That's certainly the stereotype
promoted by conservatives, but I find it amusing that you would concede the
point.

And you've apparently also decided that liberals are irreligious. Again,
that sounds more like an accusation one would hear on conservative talk
radio than from a liberal.

(Not that there's
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
anything at all wrong with messages of support from the troops; I just
don't believe that the people who put them there are biased against
conservatives.)
Certainly this idea that there's a consistant "I hate Bush" message out
there from these sources is completely out of touch with reality.
Apparently in your "reality," all the reporters who are all voting
Democratic support Bush.

---------------------------------------------
David M. Nieporent ***@alumni.princeton.edu
Jeremy Billones
2003-12-10 13:38:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Marc Nieporent
On what issue does TV news (of the non-FNC variety) "lean right"?
Immigration? Law enforcement?
--
Jeremy Billones
"Discussion is for the wise or the helpless and I am neither."
David Marc Nieporent
2003-12-10 18:42:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeremy Billones
Post by David Marc Nieporent
On what issue does TV news (of the non-FNC variety) "lean right"?
Immigration? Law enforcement?
Really? I don't think so; for instance, in the former instance, they seem
to have adopted the liberal language of "undocumented immigrants" rather
than "illegal aliens." I've seen numerous profiles of the
poor-innocent-immigrant-who-got-caught-up-in-the-post-9/11-crackdown-despite
-having-nothing-to-do-with-terrorism, with the fact that the person was a
criminal illegally in the country mentioned only as an afterthought.

The latter is too broad/vague for me to easily assess. Can you be more
specific? Certainly here in NYC, the TV news tended to adopt the
mean-old-Giuliani-oppressing-the-people angle on law enforcement issues.)
And of course wrt the gun control aspects of law enforcement, the news media
is far from the conservative position. And while the TV media seems to be
pretty strongly pro-WOD, they do tend to emphasize the
we-need-to-treat-rather-than-punish-them viewpoint. (I know there's an
argument sometimes made that crime is overemphasized in news coverage ->
this makes people afraid -> this benefits conservatives, but to the extent
this phenomenon exists, it seems to me like an unintended consequence, not a
plan.)
--
David Marc Nieporent ***@alumni.princeton.edu
Jumping To Conclusions: http://www.oobleck.com/tollbooth
Transition Zone
2003-12-11 16:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by Jeremy Billones
Post by David Marc Nieporent
On what issue does TV news (of the non-FNC variety) "lean right"?
Immigration? Law enforcement?
Really? I don't think so; for instance, in the former instance, they seem
to have adopted the liberal language of "undocumented immigrants" rather
than "illegal aliens." I've seen numerous profiles of the
poor-innocent-immigrant-who-got-caught-up-in-the-post-9/11-crackdown-despite
-having-nothing-to-do-with-terrorism,
You've got plenty of adjectives there, but where's your noun ??
Post by David Marc Nieporent
with the fact that the person was a criminal illegally in the country
mentioned only as an afterthought.
The latter is too broad/vague for me to easily assess. Can you be more
specific? Certainly here in NYC, the TV news tended to adopt the
mean-old-Giuliani-oppressing-the-people angle on law enforcement issues.)
And of course wrt the gun control aspects of law enforcement, the news media
is far from the conservative position. And while the TV media seems to be
pretty strongly pro-WOD, they do tend to emphasize the
we-need-to-treat-rather-than-punish-them viewpoint.
That's a centrist view, not a liberal one.
Post by David Marc Nieporent
(I know there's an argument sometimes made that crime is overemphasized in
news coverage -> this makes people afraid -> this benefits conservatives, but > to the extent this phenomenon exists, it seems to me like an unintended
consequence, not a plan.)
How can "the media" in all of it's non-FNC diversity coordinate any
other result in a vast left-wing conspiracy inference like that ??
Transition Zone
2003-12-10 18:13:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
Post by jim
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
Post by jim
Post by Bill
Where is this "I hate Bush" crowd I keep hearing about? Aside from a
few cranks on usenet and the web, I'm just not seeing them in my
day-to-day travels.
Turn on nearly any TV news program, other than possibly FOX and they
will be there. Watch any Hollywood love fest awards show, they will be
there. Pick up nearly any newspaper or magazine and they will be there.
Visit nearly any school on open house and speak with the teachers and
they will be there.
Of course, you have to click your heels three times, and truly believe
it.
No, there is nobody that can say the majority of the media is not
slanted away from Bush.
Obviously I've just proven you wrong.
TV news leans left on some issues and right on some issues.
On what issue does TV news (of the non-FNC variety) "lean right"?
We're forced to hear ABC's George Will, MSNBC's Pat Buchanan, Chip
Reid and others, CNN's Bob Novak and Tucker Carlson, plus countless
news clips from Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage Wiener, Paul Harvey,
Glenn Beck and several others.
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
There are
liberal newspapers and conservative newspapers; if you really believe
that "nearly any" periodical you pick up will be liberal, you're
absolutely nuts. There are plenty of conservative teachers out there,
too; I live in a pretty liberal area and I still see religious messages
in a lot of the classrooms I walk into, and it's not ususual to see
messages of support for the troops in schools as well.
So you're saying that support for the troops is a conservative viewpoint?
Liberals don't support the troops? That's certainly the stereotype
promoted by conservatives, but I find it amusing that you would concede the
point.
And are you admitting that the "Hate-America-First" accusations from
the right are false ??
Post by David Marc Nieporent
And you've apparently also decided that liberals are irreligious. Again,
that sounds more like an accusation one would hear on conservative talk
radio than from a liberal.
Which liberal advocates religion within a government ??
Post by David Marc Nieporent
(Not that there's
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
anything at all wrong with messages of support from the troops; I just
don't believe that the people who put them there are biased against
conservatives.)
Certainly this idea that there's a consistant "I hate Bush" message out
there from these sources is completely out of touch with reality.
Apparently in your "reality," all the reporters who are all voting
Democratic support Bush.
---------------------------------------------
Brett A. Pasternack
2003-12-11 05:49:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
Obviously I've just proven you wrong.
TV news leans left on some issues and right on some issues.
On what issue does TV news (of the non-FNC variety) "lean right"?
Taxes. Crime. Separation of church and state (most of the reporting I
saw on the Pledge of Allegiance decision was very much
pro-Pledge-as-currently-constituted-in-classrooms). Affirmative action.
And, most strikingly of all, big business.
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
There are
liberal newspapers and conservative newspapers; if you really believe
that "nearly any" periodical you pick up will be liberal, you're
absolutely nuts. There are plenty of conservative teachers out there,
too; I live in a pretty liberal area and I still see religious messages
in a lot of the classrooms I walk into, and it's not ususual to see
messages of support for the troops in schools as well.
So you're saying that support for the troops is a conservative viewpoint?
Liberals don't support the troops?
No. Read what I said again. "Not that there's anything at all wrong with
messages of support from the troops; I just don't believe that the
people who put them there are biased against conservatives." If teachers
were as anti-Bush as Jim thinks they are, they wouldn't put out anything
that might seem to imply support for the war.
Post by David Marc Nieporent
And you've apparently also decided that liberals are irreligious.
No, just that they respect the separation of church and state.
Post by David Marc Nieporent
(Not that there's
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
anything at all wrong with messages of support from the troops; I just
don't believe that the people who put them there are biased against
conservatives.)
Certainly this idea that there's a consistant "I hate Bush" message out
there from these sources is completely out of touch with reality.
Apparently in your "reality," all the reporters who are all voting
Democratic support Bush.
Apparantly in yours, anyone who doesn't support Bush necessarily can't
do their job without bias.
David Marc Nieporent
2003-12-14 22:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
Obviously I've just proven you wrong.
TV news leans left on some issues and right on some issues.
On what issue does TV news (of the non-FNC variety) "lean right"?
Taxes. Crime. Separation of church and state (most of the reporting I
saw on the Pledge of Allegiance decision was very much
pro-Pledge-as-currently-constituted-in-classrooms). Affirmative action.
And, most strikingly of all, big business.
In what way do they lean right on _any_ of these issues?

The only one where they disagree with your views is on the pledge, but
that's not leaning "right." That's centrist; you're just an extremist on
the subject.
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
There are
liberal newspapers and conservative newspapers; if you really believe
that "nearly any" periodical you pick up will be liberal, you're
absolutely nuts. There are plenty of conservative teachers out there,
too; I live in a pretty liberal area and I still see religious messages
in a lot of the classrooms I walk into, and it's not ususual to see
messages of support for the troops in schools as well.
So you're saying that support for the troops is a conservative viewpoint?
Liberals don't support the troops?
No. Read what I said again.
I read what you said. Again.
"Not that there's anything at all wrong with
messages of support from the troops; I just don't believe that the
people who put them there are biased against conservatives."
You said that there are "plenty of conservative teachers," and your
evidence for this was that "it's not unusual to see messages of support for
the troops." Hence, you believe that liberals wouldn't post messages of
support for the troops.
If teachers
were as anti-Bush as Jim thinks they are, they wouldn't put out anything
that might seem to imply support for the war.
Democratic candidates for president are pretty damn anti-Bush, but they
don't seem to have any trouble putting out messages of support for the
troops.
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
(Not that there's
anything at all wrong with messages of support from the troops; I just
don't believe that the people who put them there are biased against
conservatives.)
Certainly this idea that there's a consistant "I hate Bush" message out
there from these sources is completely out of touch with reality.
Apparently in your "reality," all the reporters who are all voting
Democratic support Bush.
Apparantly in yours, anyone who doesn't support Bush necessarily can't
do their job without bias.
I didn't say anything about "anyone who doesn't support Bush."

---------------------------------------------
David M. Nieporent ***@alumni.princeton.edu
Brett A. Pasternack
2003-12-15 07:31:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
Obviously I've just proven you wrong.
TV news leans left on some issues and right on some issues.
On what issue does TV news (of the non-FNC variety) "lean right"?
Taxes. Crime. Separation of church and state (most of the reporting I
saw on the Pledge of Allegiance decision was very much
pro-Pledge-as-currently-constituted-in-classrooms). Affirmative action.
And, most strikingly of all, big business.
In what way do they lean right on _any_ of these issues?
The way they present the issues. Affirmative action, for example, is
usually presented in terms of minorities getting a break vs.
non-minorities losing out on positions they are qualified for, rather
than giving any consideration to why so many more non-minorites meet the
on-paper qualifications in the first place. And the old premise of
what's good for big business is good for America still rules; did you
catch the hourlong special Peter Jennings did a year or so ago about how
wonderful it is that Frito-Lay is expanding its business all over the
world? (Very briefly, someone suggested that their products may not
always be terribly helpful, but a company spokesman explained that
there's as much fat in a glass of milk as in a bag of potato chips, and
that ended that.)
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
There are
liberal newspapers and conservative newspapers; if you really believe
that "nearly any" periodical you pick up will be liberal, you're
absolutely nuts. There are plenty of conservative teachers out there,
too; I live in a pretty liberal area and I still see religious messages
in a lot of the classrooms I walk into, and it's not ususual to see
messages of support for the troops in schools as well.
So you're saying that support for the troops is a conservative viewpoint?
Liberals don't support the troops?
No. Read what I said again.
I read what you said. Again.
"Not that there's anything at all wrong with
messages of support from the troops; I just don't believe that the
people who put them there are biased against conservatives."
You said that there are "plenty of conservative teachers," and your
evidence for this was that "it's not unusual to see messages of support for
the troops."
Hence, you believe that liberals wouldn't post messages of
support for the troops.
You're ignoring part of what I said, but I see that I was also less than
clear. In context, I was talking more about bias than about their views.
At any rate, it isn't just a matter of the fact that they "support the
troops"; it's also the nature of the displays I see that lead me to
believe they are being put up by conservatives.
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by David Marc Nieporent
Post by Brett A. Pasternack
(Not that there's
anything at all wrong with messages of support from the troops; I just
don't believe that the people who put them there are biased against
conservatives.)
Certainly this idea that there's a consistant "I hate Bush" message out
there from these sources is completely out of touch with reality.
Apparently in your "reality," all the reporters who are all voting
Democratic support Bush.
Apparantly in yours, anyone who doesn't support Bush necessarily can't
do their job without bias.
I didn't say anything about "anyone who doesn't support Bush."
You said that if I think the reporters aren't putting out an "I hate
Bush" message, that I must think they "support Bush".

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