President Barlett's "M.S."

[Mortgage.Author]

My family and I are avid fans of West Wing. The characters, actors,
storylines, delivery and visuals are excellent. I just heard that next week
the President will *finally* show signs of having M.S. As an M.S. sufferer,
I have been disappointed in how they have treated the subject.

I've never known, or heard of anyone who has had enough problems to have
been clinically diagnosed (MRI, spinal tap, etc.) with MS, who went 6 years
without periods of serious problems...no matter which of the 4 drugs that
they
are on. (The choices are: Avonex, Betaseron, Copaxine, Rebif, all of which
are imperfect and have side effects.) And by the way are ALL done by
injection. Why have we never seen or heard of him getting daily/weekly
shots?

He has never fallen; used a cane; had a hand tremble; lose his ability to
read; hold his bladder; suffer excruciating pain; forget even the most basic
things; or, any of the other real symptoms, which is completely unrealistic
and an insult to those who suffer with it.

I expect more from the excellent writers of WW. Such as:
---In one episode about the complexities of racial profiling, where the
young people, et al were detained and they were all in the White House
kitchen eating apples, the show did a simply marvelous job of explaining the
Palestinian - Israeli conflict.
---In an episode only a couple of weeks ago, the fresh way they
dramatized the problems regarding using renewable energy sources, and using
less crude oil was outstanding.

Why have they been dishonest on the Multiple Sclerosis issue? If they were
going to make up a disease for him that could potentially be a problem, but
was not actually going to cause him any grief, why not choose one that
really
can go into remission for that long?

Once, after a bad bout, I confided to a co-worker that I had M.S. He
said, "oh that's no big deal, President Bartlett has it and it hasn't slowed
him down a bit". Grrr.

Many of us have been hurt by their misrepresentation. Thoughts?

[Paul L]

Post by Mortgage.Author
My family and I are avid fans of West Wing. The characters, actors,
storylines, delivery and visuals are excellent. I just heard that next week
the President will *finally* show signs of having M.S. As an M.S. sufferer,
I have been disappointed in how they have treated the subject.
I've never known, or heard of anyone who has had enough problems to have
been clinically diagnosed (MRI, spinal tap, etc.) with MS, who went 6 years
without periods of serious problems...no matter which of the 4 drugs that
they
are on. (The choices are: Avonex, Betaseron, Copaxine, Rebif, all of which
are imperfect and have side effects.) And by the way are ALL done by
injection. Why have we never seen or heard of him getting daily/weekly
shots?
He has never fallen; used a cane; had a hand tremble; lose his ability to
read; hold his bladder; suffer excruciating pain; forget even the most basic
things; or, any of the other real symptoms, which is completely unrealistic
and an insult to those who suffer with it.

While I'm certainly not an expert on the symptoms of MS, Bartlett has fallen
at least twice...when he had the "flu", and during the first campaign...and
in retrospect, in the pilot episode, he crashed a bicycle into a tree. He
has exhibited a hand tremor. He couldn't read the teleprompter during his
re-election victory speach.

Post by Mortgage.Author
---In one episode about the complexities of racial profiling, where the
young people, et al were detained and they were all in the White House
kitchen eating apples, the show did a simply marvelous job of explaining the
Palestinian - Israeli conflict.
---In an episode only a couple of weeks ago, the fresh way they
dramatized the problems regarding using renewable energy sources, and using
less crude oil was outstanding.
Why have they been dishonest on the Multiple Sclerosis issue? If they were
going to make up a disease for him that could potentially be a problem, but
was not actually going to cause him any grief, why not choose one that
really
can go into remission for that long?
Once, after a bad bout, I confided to a co-worker that I had M.S. He
said, "oh that's no big deal, President Bartlett has it and it hasn't slowed
him down a bit". Grrr.
Many of us have been hurt by their misrepresentation. Thoughts?
--
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Messianic

[J.I.M.]

How about the show is fiction and even if it appears to present "trutth"
or "fact" rarely is it complete.

It's reponsibility is not to present anything factual but to sell
advertising.

[KKT]

Post by Mortgage.Author
He has never fallen; used a cane; had a hand tremble; lose his ability to
read; hold his bladder; suffer excruciating pain; forget even the most basic
things; or, any of the other real symptoms, which is completely unrealistic
and an insult to those who suffer with it.

I remember that he fainted/fell on 2 occasions [once he broke a
pitcher], and was unable to sign something because his hand trembled
on another [I think he was in a limo at the time]. During every
season, I think, they've mentioned/noticed/referred to memory problems.

He lost his ability to see/read during a major speech [State of the
Union, I think] ... his wife noticed that he wasn't saying what was
on the TelePromptr.

I'm sure that his symptoms are much less severe than those of many
people, but not everyone with MS has even those kinds of symptoms.

KKT

[James Squire]

Post by Mortgage.Author
My family and I are avid fans of West Wing. The characters, actors,
storylines, delivery and visuals are excellent. I just heard that next week
the President will *finally* show signs of having M.S. As an M.S. sufferer,
I have been disappointed in how they have treated the subject.
I've never known, or heard of anyone who has had enough problems to have
been clinically diagnosed (MRI, spinal tap, etc.) with MS, who went 6 years
without periods of serious problems...no matter which of the 4 drugs that
they
are on. (The choices are: Avonex, Betaseron, Copaxine, Rebif, all of which
are imperfect and have side effects.) And by the way are ALL done by
injection. Why have we never seen or heard of him getting daily/weekly
shots?
He has never fallen;

Not so. At least twice we have seen him fall. Once in the first season
when we first find out about his MS, and once in a 3rd season episode in
a flashback to the final debate (he would have fallen if people hadn't
propped him up).

Post by Mortgage.Author
used a cane;

True as far as I know.

Post by Mortgage.Author
had a hand tremble;

Not so. Happened on election day in season 4 when he was trying to sign
some documents in the limo right after voting.

Post by Mortgage.Author
lose his ability to read;

Not so. Happened at victory party the night of the Election.

Post by Mortgage.Author
hold his bladder;

True as far as I know.

Post by Mortgage.Author
suffer excruciating pain;

True as far as I know.

Post by Mortgage.Author
forget even the most basic things;

Well, there was that one episode late in season 4 when he started to
tell Zoey about killing Shareef and then stopped himself, and later when
he asked Leo (in the season finale) if he had just ordered an attack in
the Situation Room.

Post by Mortgage.Author
or, any of the other real symptoms, which is completely unrealistic
and an insult to those who suffer with it.

I can definitely see where the attacks have been unrealistically rare.

Post by Mortgage.Author
---In one episode about the complexities of racial profiling, where the
young people, et al were detained and they were all in the White House
kitchen eating apples, the show did a simply marvelous job of explaining the
Palestinian - Israeli conflict.
---In an episode only a couple of weeks ago, the fresh way they
dramatized the problems regarding using renewable energy sources, and using
less crude oil was outstanding.
Why have they been dishonest on the Multiple Sclerosis issue? If they were
going to make up a disease for him that could potentially be a problem, but
was not actually going to cause him any grief, why not choose one that
really
can go into remission for that long?
Once, after a bad bout, I confided to a co-worker that I had M.S. He
said, "oh that's no big deal, President Bartlett has it and it hasn't slowed
him down a bit". Grrr.
Many of us have been hurt by their misrepresentation. Thoughts?

Is yours relapsing/remitting or secondary/progressive? Apparently
Bartlet's is R/R, though we have been told it can turn into S/P.

No argument from me about the disease being realistically portrayed -
you are the expert ;-)
--
Jim Squire Support the IDF Refusers!
St, Louis, MO http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp
Member of The Crossings Community - http://www.crossings.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I will confess that I look forward to the day when we have cleansed the
Universe of the Centauri and carved their bones into little flutes for
Narn children. It is a dream I have."
'Be careful, Ambassador. Not every dream I've heard lately ends well
for you.'
-- G'Kar and Sinclair, "Midnight on the Firing Line"

[T]

Post by Mortgage.Author
My family and I are avid fans of West Wing. The characters, actors,
storylines, delivery and visuals are excellent. I just heard that next week
the President will *finally* show signs of having M.S. As an M.S. sufferer,
I have been disappointed in how they have treated the subject.

<snip>

Post by Mortgage.Author
And by the way (the medications [ed]) are ALL done by
injection. Why have we never seen or heard of him getting daily/weekly
shots?

But we _have_. It has (had) been kept secret and has been taken care of
by his wife, the 1st Lady, a DOCTOR.

Post by Mortgage.Author
He has never fallen;

Wrong. At least TWICE he fell that have been documented; once during his
run for Pres, and again when he broke the coffee table (and Stubing
Crystal vase). We don't know of other times that no one was around to
see for themselves.

Post by Mortgage.Author
used a cane; had a hand tremble;

Ah ah ah, wrong again. I remember seeing his hand tremble and he was
unable to sign some paperwork Charley handed him when getting back into
the limo.

Post by Mortgage.Author
lose his ability to read;

I am not unsympathetic to your situation but I'm going to nit-pick your
post some more; he started to ad lib during a speech and only his wife
knew he had trouble, she covered for him. He said "I couldn't see the
teleprompter anymore..." to paraphrase.

Post by Mortgage.Author
hold his bladder; suffer excruciating pain; forget even the most basic
things; or, any of the other real symptoms, which is completely unrealistic
and an insult to those who suffer with it.

Well, and then again it's a TV show. (I have always hated this as a cop
out btw.)

Post by Mortgage.Author
I expect more from the excellent writers of WW.

<snip>

Well, Sorkin is GONE, and he developed or oversaw a lot of the long
strokes. Wells? Well....

Post by Mortgage.Author
Many of us have been hurt by their misrepresentation. Thoughts?

I can only mention two things in closing; getting heard and educating
people is perhaps the only way to correct misinformation AND it's not
reality, it's fiction on TV.


TBerk

[David Johnston]

Post by T
Well, Sorkin is GONE, and he developed or oversaw a lot of the long
strokes. Wells? Well....

Wells has become a terribly convenient resource. Got a problem with
something on West Wing? It's Wells' fault even if Sorkin did it as
well or did worse.

[T]

Post by David Johnston

Post by T
Well, Sorkin is GONE, and he developed or oversaw a lot of the long
strokes. Wells? Well....

Wells has become a terribly convenient resource. Got a problem with
something on West Wing? It's Wells' fault even if Sorkin did it as
well or did worse.

Pre-Sorkin vs Post-Sorkin.

No difference?

I don't blame Wells for everything though.


TBerk

[David Doty]

Post by T
Pre-Sorkin vs Post-Sorkin.

Pre-Sorkin there was no show, so big difference.

Sorkin vs Post-Sorkin, still different, but less so.

Dave Doty

[T]

Post by David Doty

Post by T
Pre-Sorkin vs Post-Sorkin.

Pre-Sorkin there was no show, so big difference.
Sorkin vs Post-Sorkin, still different, but less so.
Dave Doty

Thx. I submit my Intent was Pre-Sorkin-Leaving vs Post-Leaving.

TBerk

[Gaylan]

I think you are all taking it too seriously; remember it is a fictional TV
program, written by people unaffected by MS, and the real focus of the
program has nothing to do with the disease.

Gaylan

Post by Mortgage.Author
My family and I are avid fans of West Wing. The characters, actors,
storylines, delivery and visuals are excellent. I just heard that next week
the President will *finally* show signs of having M.S. As an M.S. sufferer,
I have been disappointed in how they have treated the subject.

<snip>

Post by Mortgage.Author
And by the way (the medications [ed]) are ALL done by
injection. Why have we never seen or heard of him getting daily/weekly
shots?

But we _have_. It has (had) been kept secret and has been taken care of
by his wife, the 1st Lady, a DOCTOR.

Post by Mortgage.Author
He has never fallen;

Wrong. At least TWICE he fell that have been documented; once during his
run for Pres, and again when he broke the coffee table (and Stubing
Crystal vase). We don't know of other times that no one was around to
see for themselves.

Post by Mortgage.Author
used a cane; had a hand tremble;

Ah ah ah, wrong again. I remember seeing his hand tremble and he was
unable to sign some paperwork Charley handed him when getting back into
the limo.

Post by Mortgage.Author
lose his ability to read;

I am not unsympathetic to your situation but I'm going to nit-pick your
post some more; he started to ad lib during a speech and only his wife
knew he had trouble, she covered for him. He said "I couldn't see the
teleprompter anymore..." to paraphrase.

Post by Mortgage.Author
hold his bladder; suffer excruciating pain; forget even the most basic
things; or, any of the other real symptoms, which is completely unrealistic
and an insult to those who suffer with it.

Well, and then again it's a TV show. (I have always hated this as a cop
out btw.)

Post by Mortgage.Author
I expect more from the excellent writers of WW.

<snip>

Well, Sorkin is GONE, and he developed or oversaw a lot of the long
strokes. Wells? Well....

Post by Mortgage.Author
Many of us have been hurt by their misrepresentation. Thoughts?

I can only mention two things in closing; getting heard and educating
people is perhaps the only way to correct misinformation AND it's not
reality, it's fiction on TV.


TBerk

[Caroline]

The alt.tv.the-west-wing newsgroup does often discuss factual errors of other
aspects of TWW. Also, the President's MS has been a focal point several times
since the series began.

I for one found the original poster's point interesting and valuable.

Post by Gaylan
I think you are all taking it too seriously; remember it is a fictional TV
program, written by people unaffected by MS, and the real focus of the
program has nothing to do with the disease.

[James Squire]

Post by Caroline
The alt.tv.the-west-wing newsgroup does often discuss factual errors of other
aspects of TWW. Also, the President's MS has been a focal point several times
since the series began.
I for one found the original poster's point interesting and valuable.

I second that.
--
Jim Squire Support the IDF Refusers!
St, Louis, MO http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp
Member of The Crossings Community - http://www.crossings.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"How do you know the chosen ones? No greater love hath a man than he
lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, not for glory,
not for fame, for one person in the dark. Where no one will ever know
or see. I have been in the service of the Vorlons for centuries
looking for you. Diogenis with his lamp looking for an honest man
willing to die for all the wrong reasons. At last my job is finished.
Yours is just beginning. When the darkness comes, know this...you are
the right people in the right place at the right time."
-- Sebastion (to Delenn and Sheridan), "Comes the Inquisitor"

[J.I.M.]

Post by Caroline
The alt.tv.the-west-wing newsgroup does often discuss factual errors of other
aspects of TWW. Also, the President's MS has been a focal point several times
since the series began.
I for one found the original poster's point interesting and valuable.

Post by Gaylan
I think you are all taking it too seriously; remember it is a fictional TV
program, written by people unaffected by MS, and the real focus of the
program has nothing to do with the disease.

Hello, reality knocking - it's a TV show not a documentary on the health
channel.

[T]

Post by J.I.M.

Post by Caroline
The alt.tv.the-west-wing newsgroup does often discuss factual errors of other
aspects of TWW. Also, the President's MS has been a focal point several times
since the series began.
I for one found the original poster's point interesting and valuable.

Post by Gaylan
I think you are all taking it too seriously; remember it is a fictional TV
program, written by people unaffected by MS, and the real focus of the
program has nothing to do with the disease.

Hello, reality knocking - it's a TV show not a documentary on the health
channel.

Yes but they have some obligation to not distort medical symptoms.


TBerk

[J.I.M.]

Post by T

Post by J.I.M.

Post by Gaylan
I think you are all taking it too seriously; remember it is a fictional TV
program, written by people unaffected by MS, and the real focus of the
program has nothing to do with the disease.

Hello, reality knocking - it's a TV show not a documentary on the health
channel.

Yes but they have some obligation to not distort medical symptoms.

No, they have an obligation to deliver demographics for their
advertisers. Any moron that counts on a fictional TV program to educate
him them on a disease needs to have their head examined.

Was it wrong for the Andy Grifith Show to portray an alchoholic as a
lovable character with Otis?

What about a blatant racist in Archie Bunker?

be serious.

[T]

Post by J.I.M.

Post by T

Post by J.I.M.

Post by Gaylan
I think you are all taking it too seriously; remember it is a fictional TV
program, written by people unaffected by MS, and the real focus of the
program has nothing to do with the disease.

Hello, reality knocking - it's a TV show not a documentary on the health
channel.

Yes but they have some obligation to not distort medical symptoms.

No, they have an obligation to deliver demographics for their
advertisers. Any moron that counts on a fictional TV program to educate
him them on a disease needs to have their head examined.
Was it wrong for the Andy Grifith Show to portray an alchoholic as a
lovable character with Otis?
What about a blatant racist in Archie Bunker?
be serious.

I am serious. There will be a backlash from those same demographics if
it's said that MS causes horns to grow out of your head and causes you
to dance the Macerana in the nude. On table tops.


Since when did you get appointed the serious referee?


TBerk

[J.I.M.]

Post by T

Post by J.I.M.
No, they have an obligation to deliver demographics for their
advertisers. Any moron that counts on a fictional TV program to educate
him them on a disease needs to have their head examined.
Was it wrong for the Andy Grifith Show to portray an alchoholic as a
lovable character with Otis?
What about a blatant racist in Archie Bunker?
be serious.

I am serious. There will be a backlash from those same demographics if
it's said that MS causes horns to grow out of your head and causes you
to dance the Macerana in the nude. On table tops.

Yet you fail to answer the question.

[T]

Post by J.I.M.

Post by T

Post by J.I.M.
No, they have an obligation to deliver demographics for their
advertisers. Any moron that counts on a fictional TV program to educate
him them on a disease needs to have their head examined.
Was it wrong for the Andy Grifith Show to portray an alchoholic as a
lovable character with Otis?

Somewhat, but I myself don't see it as 'wrong'.

Post by J.I.M.

Post by T

Post by J.I.M.
What about a blatant racist in Archie Bunker?
be serious.

Seriously I don't think it was wrong to show Archie Bunker, affirmed
racist on TV, in fact the intent to show him as such was the point- it
was to ridicule racism that it was done. Draw a parallel to WW with this
one.

Post by J.I.M.

Post by T
I am serious. There will be a backlash from those same demographics if
it's said that MS causes horns to grow out of your head and causes you
to dance the Macerana in the nude. On table tops.

Yet you fail to answer the question.

Here is my point. _I_ am one of the demos, I hold accountable the
writers/creators of a show if the information is blatantly wrong, the
bigger the exposure, the more it is central to the character/plot the
more likely a hue & cry is raised, talked about, word spread.

As an individual my single voice is but one, I don't have delusions of
grandeur. Still, I _do_ reserve the expectation that care and diligence
be applied towards the spread (or avoidance there of) of disinformation.

Most times it's sloppy writing, or corner cutting to blame.


TBerk
I note this is x-posted

[J.I.M.]

Post by T

Post by J.I.M.
No, they have an obligation to deliver demographics for their
advertisers. Any moron that counts on a fictional TV program to educate
him them on a disease needs to have their head examined.
Was it wrong for the Andy Grifith Show to portray an alchoholic as a
lovable character with Otis?

Somewhat, but I myself don't see it as 'wrong'.

Than how can yo complain that MS is portrayed wrongly?

Post by T
Here is my point. _I_ am one of the demos, I hold accountable the
writers/creators of a show if the information is blatantly wrong, the
bigger the exposure, the more it is central to the character/plot the
more likely a hue & cry is raised, talked about, word spread.
As an individual my single voice is but one, I don't have delusions of
grandeur. Still, I _do_ reserve the expectation that care and diligence
be applied towards the spread (or avoidance there of) of disinformation.
Most times it's sloppy writing, or corner cutting to blame.

and I state again - it is too bad people are afflicted with things such
as MS. However the purpose of a TV show such as the WW is to entertain
people to stick around and watch commercials so they go out and spend
money.

It's not school, it's not PBS, it's not the Medical Channel.

[T]

J.I.M. wrote:
<snip>

Post by J.I.M.
Than how can yo complain that MS is portrayed wrongly?

Was that my position? No, it was that A) the original poster mentions
how inaccurate the MS was portrayed, included examples that I took
exception to, & B) I spec'd a standard that was against either
deliberate or sloppy misrepresentations of medical problems on a mass
communication forum like TV.

Showing an alcoholic as a lovable lush in a a very old series is beyond
my ability to influence. It's long in the can; WW is current and is
fluid, to some extent. I exercise my option to voice my opinion.

Post by J.I.M.
and I state again - it is too bad people are afflicted with things such
as MS. However the purpose of a TV show such as the WW is to entertain
people to stick around and watch commercials so they go out and spend
money.
It's not school, it's not PBS, it's not the Medical Channel.

As may be, but does the public just take what comes? Or do we provide
feedback?

Keep in mind our positions are not polar opposites. I am not against you
or your ideas.


TBerk

[Brett A. Pasternack]

Post by T
<snip>

Post by J.I.M.
Than how can yo complain that MS is portrayed wrongly?

Was that my position? No, it was that A) the original poster mentions
how inaccurate the MS was portrayed, included examples that I took
exception to, & B) I spec'd a standard that was against either
deliberate or sloppy misrepresentations of medical problems on a mass
communication forum like TV.
Showing an alcoholic as a lovable lush in a a very old series is beyond
my ability to influence. It's long in the can; WW is current and is
fluid, to some extent. I exercise my option to voice my opinion.

Post by J.I.M.
and I state again - it is too bad people are afflicted with things such
as MS. However the purpose of a TV show such as the WW is to entertain
people to stick around and watch commercials so they go out and spend
money.
It's not school, it's not PBS, it's not the Medical Channel.

As may be, but does the public just take what comes? Or do we provide
feedback?
Keep in mind our positions are not polar opposites. I am not against you
or your ideas.

Let's also keep in mind that the Andy Griffith Show was a comedy. While
that doesn't give them a complete blank check, it does mean that people
are less likely to take what it presents about a medical condition (or
whatever) as factual.

[Tim]

I thnk that I am glad that Bartlett was given MS. At least it brings a
little focus on tne issue. He cant be laying in bed all the time
feeling like shit! That he isnt proytrayed as a complete cabbage gives
us a little hope that that may not happen to us. If anything his MS
throws a little light on the subject. At least it was mentioned.
Tim

[Peachy Ashie Passion]

Post by Tim
I thnk that I am glad that Bartlett was given MS. At least it brings a
little focus on tne issue. He cant be laying in bed all the time
feeling like shit! That he isnt proytrayed as a complete cabbage gives
us a little hope that that may not happen to us. If anything his MS
throws a little light on the subject. At least it was mentioned.
Tim

I am reminded of Fox News guy Neil Cavuto. I don't watch much,
but I did see an episode where he responded to a letter from a
viewer unhappy with him for not mentioning his MS more.

He replied that he appreciated the viewpoint, but that he is more
than his MS, and it doesn't need to get mentioned all that often. I
could be wrong, but I believe he also went on to say that he hoped
that his continuing with his life could give hope to others with MS.

[Kyle Jones]

Post by T

Post by Mortgage.Author
hold his bladder; suffer excruciating pain; forget even the
most basic things; or, any of the other real symptoms, which
is completely unrealistic and an insult to those who suffer
with it.

Well, and then again it's a TV show. (I have always hated this as a cop
out btw.)

No gushing before 10pm. ER and NYPD Blue, to name a couple, have
had no problems with gushing bodily fluids.

Agony, apparently, is OK before 10pm; witness Leo's heart attack.
If that's really what it's like to have an MI, no more chicken
fingers for me. :/

[JJ]

I thought that the show treated the subject of M.S. with a certain amount of
respect, in the episodes that centered around it.

Aside from those particular shows, the subject has been on the back burner.
It would be silly, and honestly, no good for the show to see the president
laying in bed, getting steroid treatments, or operating below par every
show. So, I guess the question is: should they have introduced the subject
at all? I don't know. I have a very good friend with relapsing/remitting
M.S....they live a regular life, and have not had a serious episode in
years...quite like bartlet.
In the show, Mrs. Bartlett has stated her serious concerns about his
M.S.....that's something I guess. but then again, it's not meant to be
documentary on M.S. it's a drama.

J.

Post by Mortgage.Author
Why have they been dishonest on the Multiple Sclerosis issue? If they were
going to make up a disease for him that could potentially be a problem, but
was not actually going to cause him any grief, why not choose one that
really
can go into remission for that long?
Once, after a bad bout, I confided to a co-worker that I had M.S. He
said, "oh that's no big deal, President Bartlett has it and it hasn't slowed
him down a bit". Grrr.
Many of us have been hurt by their misrepresentation. Thoughts?
--
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Messianic

[Brett A. Pasternack]

Post by Mortgage.Author
My family and I are avid fans of West Wing. The characters, actors,
storylines, delivery and visuals are excellent. I just heard that next week

Do not discuss episodes that have not aired yet without using spoiler
warnings. Thank you.